[Dan AKA]

I noticed spacers on the bottoms of a couple peoples packs (between frame and MB). is this necessary?

Depends on the level of accuracy you want. The movie packs had spacers, however it should work just fine without them.

[nataku]

Were they custom jobs or something that can be bought?

Also, I'm thinking of using conduit clamps to secure the frame to the motherboard. Can anyone tell me what the pipe size is on the frame?

[kind2311]

no need to get complicated like that. you use 2 carriage bolts on the bottom slots of the alice frame(MMM's mobo is drilled in this location already) and one more regular bolt through the vertical crossmember, right above the horizontal crossmember support.

Carriage bolts have a square part right below the head, they stay perfectly snug in the notches at the bottom of the frame




i used 1/4" shaft collars on all three of my mounting points




the packs in GB2 used something similar to a plain steel spacer, about 1/2"

[nataku]

Hehe, ok. Maybe I need to step back and take a breather.

From morning to night, all I think about is the proton pack. Even when I go to work I walk around looking for parts to use.

I'm starting to over think this.

[Gareee]

Welcome to the club... you have pack madness!

Its good to step back, take a breather, and then revisit things you think are problems later. In many cases, you'll suddenly "get it", or find a simple workaround for something you thought was a huge issue.

[beardo]

Weird question, but when buying from omahas.com, the kidney pad for the LC-1 does not come with the turnbuckle to attach it to the frame. Anyone know where to pick one up?

[mburkit]

I got my turnbuckle from ACE Hardware. Try there or any other hardware store.

[beardo]

Great, thanks!

[mooslug]

So I just purchased an LC-1 on ebay, and it arrived today. It's exactly as it should be, with the correct straps, belt, and frame. The only problem is, the thing smells like an army surplus store (go figure). The pads are smelly and greasy feeling- some lovely 30 year old sweat has set deep into them. My LC-2 must have been barely used or something, as it's sparkly clean by comparison.

I've removed the pads/straps from the frame. What's the best way to de-stink-ify them? Seems like the washing machine or even hand-wash is an invitation to rust.

[kind2311]

im afraid the only way to really clean them is with soap and warm water. be that by hand or in the wash. either way, the metal parts have to get wet.

how is the paint on the metal now? im sure its worn down since you said the straps are used, but is the metal showing signs of rust?

either way i would think a quick, hard scrub with warm water and a bit of soap, followed by a good rinse and thorough drying should get them clean without too much risk of rust forming.

on another note, I am constantly scouring eBay for stuff like screen accurate boots and alice packs etc. I'd love to see the listing of the pack you bought . . .i wonder how i missed that?

[wbundrick]

After washing the straps you can hit the metal buckle parts with WD-40 to disperse any moisture and protect against rust.

[Gareee]

you'll need to remove the straps anyway to paint the frame flat black.. I'd use wd-40 after that, because odds are paint will not stick to wd 40..

[mooslug]

im afraid the only way to really clean them is with soap and warm water. be that by hand or in the wash. either way, the metal parts have to get wet.

how is the paint on the metal now? im sure its worn down since you said the straps are used, but is the metal showing signs of rust?

either way i would think a quick, hard scrub with warm water and a bit of soap, followed by a good rinse and thorough drying should get them clean without too much risk of rust forming.

on another note, I am constantly scouring eBay for stuff like screen accurate boots and alice packs etc. I'd love to see the listing of the pack you bought . . .i wonder how i missed that?

True enough. Good point- I'll just have to dry them quickly. The paint isn't terrible, with only a bit of rust on the chipped areas of the steel parts. I guess if I dry the straps quickly then clean/oil the steel bits as wbundrick suggested it should be ok.

I purchased my frame from the ebay seller topgaines... their listing is a multi-item buy-it-now that is still active, so I can't post it here without getting fussed at. It shows the newer LC-2, but I sent the seller a question asking if they had any of the old style waist/shoulder straps. The lady who answered the question said yes, but to send a note along with payment indicating my preference. At the time I didn't realize there was a difference between the LC1 and LC2 frames, and lucked out because I received an LC-1 frame (black paint and non-curvy crossbars) along with the straps.

Before you buy one, I would ask just to make sure they have more. It was a good deal, in any case- ended up right at $30 shipped.

Gareee- the LC-1 frame is already black, so I won't be needing to paint it

[mooslug]

ooops double post

[kind2311]

good find mooslug!

also, the WD-40 idea is good but wont it get all over the straps again and defeat the purpose of washing them?

[mooslug]

Thanks! Also I think I'm just going to spray silicon lube on a piece of paper and use a Q-tip to apply it to the steel bits. As you note, WD-40 would be a bit stinky, and I would be concerned about it affecting the fabric/nylon.

[Gareee]

Actually a metallic "machine" smell is a good thing. I might try spraying somthing with wd-40 on my pack, maybe the back of the mb, so it has that mechanical smell to it.

[beardo]

Hey I just picked up an LC-1 frame from topgaines too! Got just a frame for $7.50!

[JAnderson392]

I got my turnbuckle from ACE Hardware. Try there or any other hardware store.

What type and size turnbuckle do you get?

[mburkit]

I took the kidney pad in to ACE with me and just kept trying the ones that looked about the right size till I got the right one. Trial and error my friend!

[JAnderson392]

I found a place online that is selling the LC-1 straps I just ordered some the other day and they arrived today. They are the correct ones. Only one being the quick release. I wasn't sure if Dan or anybody else would want the link to add to the first post. http://www.bradleyssurplus.com/product/ ... der-straps

[XenuPrime]

Hey! I am new here and trying to build my first pack. I am having trouble finding a black alice frame (I know I can paint it, but I preffer original). I found a guy on ebay, but the straps were LC-2.

Any more resources?

[kind2311]

I found a place online that is selling the LC-1 straps I just ordered some the other day and they arrived today. They are the correct ones. Only one being the quick release. I wasn't sure if Dan or anybody else would want the link to add to the first post. http://www.bradleyssurplus.com/product/ ... der-straps

thats not all it needs to be GB1 accurate.they must also have the V-webbing connecting strap on top and thin padding spanning the entire length of the strap, not just on the top portion. do they have that as well?

[JAnderson392]

it seems that they don't have those other two things so I guess they aren't as accurate as I originally thought. But they work fine for me.

[mikegbfan2009]

This post may contain an affiliate link that helps support GBFans.com when you make a purchase at no additional cost to you.

I noticed one major difference between GB1 and GB2 frames that I haven't seen discussed yet, and that's the 1-inch off-setting of the backbar. I think this makes for some minor differences on how you'd mount the motherboard as well as screen accuracy for a GB1 versus GB2 pack.
Quoting one of Dan AKA's url refs, LC2 frame:

This later madel frame from the 1980's and forward hfeatures the quick-release straps on both sides and the horizontal backbar has been moved off the back about 1 inch for greater confort.

Stefan's ALICE frame CAD drawings reference the LC2 frame with a raised backbar and claim this to be a GB1 frame. The sample photos I'm looking at show the plans are more likely a GB2 frame as Stefan's plans indicate the raised backbar which is not the GB1 style. Not to mention, some frames appear to have a raised backbar that's also bent inwards (again, this is what the Stefan CAD drawings show). Below I've included references to movie screen captures, hero pack photos from GBfans.com, and other military surplus photos.

LC2 frame from an Ebay posting I found - raised backbar, but no inward bend.


LC(?) Rothco frame (probably LC1 milspec) fromAmazon that I purchased. Flat backbar, no inwards bend either.

(I think I've learned my lesson - if it's NEW, it's probably after market. Additionally, the warning about Rothco flight suits appears to be true for their other equipment as well. This pack may be new, but it's after market and more expensive than many of the authentic frames you'll find on eBay.)

Now compare the photos above to the photos from Planet Hollywood NY (looks like it's a GB2 hero pack) here on GBfans and two brightened screenshots from GB1 as shown below.

Planet Hollywood NY
See images 30 and 36. The backbar is obviously raised off the frame by about an inch. I can't tell if the bar is bent inwards or not.
http://www.gbfans.com/equipment/reference/29/20/

GB1 Screen Captures
Here are two ref shots I pulled from a post by GhostGuy, enhanced to point out the frame shape. It's fairly apparent that there the backbar is not raised on the GB1 packs.



Two Questions:
1. Is it correct to say that the GB1 frames are LC1 ALICE frames and have no 1" offset on the backbar and the GB2 frames are LC2 frames that have backbars raised 1" off the frame? I've found conflicting definitions of what LC1 versus LC2 actually refer to - frame, straps, pack, all of them together? In addition to the differences already pointed out between the straps in the two films I think this is an important distinction between the frames.
2. Anybody know what that black looking blob is between the motherboard and frame on the GB1 packs? There's clearly a large gap between the two running the length of the pack and it's not obvious to me what the attachment point is up top.

Lastly, here's another manual and reference I found on Georgia Outfitters...
A.L.I.C.E. frame LC1, LC2 reference

[Dan AKA]

To be honest I'm not entirely sure of what you're talking about. If you're talking about the curve at the top of an ALICE frame I've noticed that they commonly get bent out of shape.

Other than that I'm at a loss for what you're trying to say.

[Austin]

I'm pretty sure differences in the frames all have to do with who manufactured them, not weather or not they're LC1 or LC2(besides the color difference).

I've had a ton of frames over the years and they all had variants as far as the way the were constructed and shaped.

[mikegbfan2009]

To be honest I'm not entirely sure of what you're talking about. If you're talking about the curve at the top of an ALICE frame I've noticed that they commonly get bent out of shape.

Other than that I'm at a loss for what you're trying to say.

Am I unclear all around or is there one point in particular? I'll try and clarify further so hopefully this will help.
First, the backbar that's placed mid-back (9.7" from the bottom of the frame) and runs the width of the pack I've seen in 3 flavors:
1) It's mounted flush with the frame (see Rothco sample above and GB1 screen captures).
2) It's mounted raised off the frame by about an inch - see Planet Hollywood NY reference photos above and Stefan's CAD drawings.
3) It's mounted raised off the frame by an inch AND it's curved inwards. I saw at least one pic somewhere with this style, but again in Stefan's plans check out the vertical view and you'll see the mid-back support curves inwards.

Second, the screen captures I included from GB1 have a black/dark piece right about where the frame makes the 160-degree bend around the shoulders. There's a clear gap between the frame and motherboard as I've highlighted, which we wouldn't see if the pieces were mounted flush. You can see this black thing in the second close-up image of Venkman in that gap, but also on Egon's pack in the first image. My question here is, is the black thing part of a mount for the upper part of the motherboard to the frame?

[undertaker6x3]

My guess on the mystery mount would be that it is just that. A rubber mount. Something to keep metal from rubbing on metal. Just a guess.

[Dan AKA]

Am I unclear all around or is there one point in particular? I'll try and clarify further so hopefully this will help.
First, the backbar that's placed mid-back (9.7" from the bottom of the frame) and runs the width of the pack I've seen in 3 flavors:
1) It's mounted flush with the frame (see Rothco sample above and GB1 screen captures).
2) It's mounted raised off the frame by about an inch - see Planet Hollywood NY reference photos above and Stefan's CAD drawings.
3) It's mounted raised off the frame by an inch AND it's curved inwards. I saw at least one pic somewhere with this style, but again in Stefan's plans check out the vertical view and you'll see the mid-back support curves inwards.

Second, the screen captures I included from GB1 have a black/dark piece right about where the frame makes the 160-degree bend around the shoulders. There's a clear gap between the frame and motherboard as I've highlighted, which we wouldn't see if the pieces were mounted flush. You can see this black thing in the second close-up image of Venkman in that gap, but also on Egon's pack in the first image. My question here is, is the black thing part of a mount for the upper part of the motherboard to the frame?

For the first point: That inward curve you spoke about is due to street on the frame, despite the loads the frames are designed to take they still bend. And boy do they bend a lot. I've seen frames where the center verticle support strip is in the shape of an "S." The center lateral support strip is mounted depending on manufacturer as Austin said.

Second point: There's spacers on the bolts holding the frame to the mobo, which is why there is a gap between the actual pack and frame. The black spot you speak of I think is actually a shadow behind the actors, and not a part of the prop at all.

I hope this helps.