Discuss Ghostbusters: Afterlife, released on November 19, 2021 and directed by Jason Reitman.
#4965132
Sav C wrote: January 11th, 2022, 11:58 am I know I sound like a broken record, but I don't like that the plan to catch Gozer is largely the same throughout the movie. Egon catches a terror dog, and lures Gozer's energy into the field of traps. At least, that's what I think happens (if he was only being chased by the other terror dog, why couldn't he trap that terror dog as well? (if one trap wasn't enough to hold a terror dog, couldn't it be placed in a stronger containment unit at a later date?)). But his plan fails since there's not enough power.

Ok.

But then, in the ending, they lure Gozer down to the field of traps, and again it doesn't work because there's not enough power. But Trevor shoots a proton beam at the power conductors, and blam, Gozer's trapped. Unless I missed something, the main difference between the beginning and ending was that they had more power at the ending (and there wasn't any talk, prior to it happening, of how to get more power). I dunno, it doesn't seem very creative.

The other difference is that Egon worked alone, but they worked as a team at the end. This is a lovely testament to the power of working together. However, I can't help but feel that Egon could've gotten the guys back together at the beginning of the movie. I know even Ray had dismissed him as crossing the border, but I feel like there was enough evidence there to get them back on board. A picture of the mineshaft of souls, next to the perfectly preserved body of Ivo Shandor, probably would have helped his case a lot.

I'm probably just being too critical.

Listen, I enjoyed the movie, I really did. And I apologize if I'm raining on anybody's parade. Story wise, a lot of the movie didn't really work for me. To me, the movie felt more like a tribute to the equipment and the car more than anything else. I think that rehashing Gozer was a mistake.
No you aren’t being too critical. The Ray/Egon thing is the films worst sin. It’s goes so against the characters that I get a little angry about it. It’s a fundamental misunderstanding of their dynamic & it’s one of those things that I’d love to know what Ivan Reitman really thinks.

Yeah there is SO much evidence that this was a Gozer hotspot. Give Ray a valid reason to doubt it. Or have him say “I went up there and stayed for 2 years with him. But there was nothing. Egon wasn’t use to being wrong. But he was. He didn’t handle it well. ”. Problem fixed. Ray would never not believe Egon and if Egon took off with the equipment Ray would be right behind him.

I hate to say it but it’s lazy storytelling.

I think you and I are in the same boat when it comes to this movie. There’s a lot to like. The new characters? Awesome. Everything dealing with stuff from the previous films, outside of the surface details like equipment and cars, that’s where the problems start. The OGB’s, Gozer, Egon, Ivo Shandor…it’s a mess. And then you mix in the film not being a comedy? Like I said it just goes to show how hard apparently it is to make one of these movies and why I respect the original movies so much more.

And don’t get me wrong. I the first viewing, while not ideal circumstances, was still a trip. I enjoyed myself(could’ve been the drugs tho..) but whenever I started to think about it I just had all these problems. Then on a second viewing, I was much less enthusiastic.
#4965133
I'm in the same boat. I absolutely love the movie first hour. It's great. It looks awesome. The music is awesome. The back and forth between Phoebe and her mother is fun: 'Don't be yourself!' and Phoebe attacking Callie for not mentioning her dad's history brought an actual tear to my eye. For me that's the heart of the movie.

Then Muncher shows up. They just happen to be in the right place at the right time. Why did he make a sound? Why not earlier?
The chase is awesome, but Podcast immediately knows how to work the trapdoor and release the RTV, and knows how to operate it.
It's a great looking chase, and then we finally get the call...
Ray makes a weird comment about Starbucks, and his story just doesn't make sense. He is a believer! He should definitely be believe Egon.

The movies starts to lose itself here and while it still has it's moments, it loses what made it different and becomes what feels like a greatest hit machine on speed.

Gozer showing up in skeletal form was great. Loved that visual. Then the Mini Pufts just show up out of nowhere, and I can only handwave so much. When the GB showed up I growned. It was once again incredibly plot convenient. Cue silly music and Bill ad libbing some stuff that felt not the right time.
Explain yourself movie! Show stuff. Build things up. The Egon bit was great and I loved that, but the final act was a roller coaster of good and bad decisions for me.


I'm actually super happy there is news about the cut scenes with Janine and the old crew and I hope it's reinstated as it fixes so much for me. Not everything, but eh.
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#4965135
Alphagaia wrote: January 11th, 2022, 1:38 pm I
Then Muncher shows up. They just happen to be in the right place at the right time. Why did he make a sound? Why not earlier?
If you're going to talk about conveniences then its probably better not to watch movies as theres always conveniences involved. For example, in the original movie the original 3 "just happen" to start a business mere weeks before a world ending threat arrive and they "just happen" to be equipped to deal with it. They "just happen" to have started their business at the perfect time to stop Gozer.

That's the nature of movies, if you're going to analyse every single frame and line then there's not many movies that can stand up to that kind of scrutiny.
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#4965136
At least the first movie has some kind of build up and actual explanations. A few steps that explain they love the supernatural, they are techheads, and an encounter gives the information needed to bust then. The script logically flows through these steps.

Let me put it this way.
If Muncher made a sound because he was startled by their shooting range test, I would not have minded him making a sound. But he was quiet during the whole scene before. If Egon or Podcast steered Phoebe towards that abandoned Factory because it's the perfect place to find a ghost, I would have understood why they picked that location.

Build it up. As it is now, it's only because the plot needs to happen when just a line or two and Muncher being startled could have explained it all and made the movie flow much better.

And again, I can handwave a few convenient plot points, but it kept stacking like no human would normally do.
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#4965138
Alphagaia wrote: January 11th, 2022, 2:07 pm At least the first movie has some kind of build up and actual explanations. A few steps that explain they love the supernatural, they are techheads, and an encounter gives the information needed to bust then. The script logically flows through these steps.

Let me put it this way.
If Muncher made a sound because he was startled by their shooting range test, I would not have minded him making a sound. But he was quiet during the whole scene before. If Egon or Podcast steered Phoebe towards that abandoned Factory because it's the perfect place to find a ghost, I would have understood why they picked that location.

Build it up. As it is now, it's only because the plot needs to happen when just a line or two and Muncher being startled could have explained it all and made the movie flow much better.

And again, I can handwave a few convenient plot points, but it kept stacking like no human would normally do.
Maybe muncher was at another part of the factory where he couldn't be heard? One thing the movie does show is muncher seems to randomly take a few bites and move on to some other piece of metal. So not hard to assume he was making his way through the factory randomly biting different pieces of metal.

And heres what i would consider the ultimate convenience, in the second movie they're about to be sentenced to jail and what happens? The slime sample "just happens" to conjur up 2 dead convicts that were executed and the same judge that sentenced them to death "just happens" to be the same judge presiding over the case. In all the tens of thousands of gallons of slime that sample "just happened" to contain the Scoleri brothers.

So, again, plenty of conveniences in the past movies that people seem to ignore as the rose tinted glasses are out for movies that were seen at a much younger age.
#4965139
gerard55 wrote: January 11th, 2022, 2:24 pm
Alphagaia wrote: January 11th, 2022, 2:07 pm At least the first movie has some kind of build up and actual explanations. A few steps that explain they love the supernatural, they are techheads, and an encounter gives the information needed to bust then. The script logically flows through these steps.

Let me put it this way.
If Muncher made a sound because he was startled by their shooting range test, I would not have minded him making a sound. But he was quiet during the whole scene before. If Egon or Podcast steered Phoebe towards that abandoned Factory because it's the perfect place to find a ghost, I would have understood why they picked that location.

Build it up. As it is now, it's only because the plot needs to happen when just a line or two and Muncher being startled could have explained it all and made the movie flow much better.

And again, I can handwave a few convenient plot points, but it kept stacking like no human would normally do.
Maybe muncher was at another part of the factory where he couldn't be heard? One thing the movie does show is muncher seems to randomly take a few bites and move on to some other piece of metal. So not hard to assume he was making his way through the factory randomly biting different pieces of metal.

And heres what i would consider the ultimate convenience, in the second movie they're about to be sentenced to jail and what happens? The slime sample "just happens" to conjur up 2 dead convicts that were executed and the same judge that sentenced them to death "just happens" to be the same judge presiding over the case. In all the tens of thousands of gallons of slime that sample "just happened" to contain the Scoleri brothers.

So, again, plenty of conveniences in the past movies that people seem to ignore as the rose tinted glasses are out for movies that were seen at a much younger age.
You are reading the 2nd film wrong. The slime didn’t contain the Scoleri Bros. It manifested them. So if that had been anywhere else with a different judge, it wouldn’t have been the Scoleri Bros. The Bros showed up because it was the judges anger that made the Slime pop.

There’s a word I tend to overuse on this site but it’s important. It’s verisimilitude. It’s essential to good storytelling where the fantastic happens. The problems Alpha, I and Sav mention aren’t nitpicks. Well maybe some are, but when taken together with all the other elements…the movies verisimilitude goes down the drain.
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#4965140
Let me start by saying the second movie isn't as great as the first one for me.

That being said, the slime creating ghosts is a consistent plot point in the movie. So, ghosts appearing would always happen because of the building negative energy in the room.
However, I agree that the ghosts being conjured are known by the judge is very convenient, but for the story it doesn't matter. All that is needed is for the plot is that the slime creates ghosts and that's completely consistent: the slime makes the cart run, the toaster dance, the minxcoat attack the lady, empowers Vigo painting, etc.

The same cannot be said about Munchers entrance. He wasn't build up. His whole backstory only mentioned in the artbook. I have to accept he is just there. No one knows about him and him just making a loud sound for no reason at that exact moment.

But agree to disagree if you are fine with that, ofcourse. For me it was the first crack, with more to follow.

Still enjoyed the movie, mind you. Just wish it had less cracks.
Last edited by Alphagaia on January 11th, 2022, 2:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
#4965141
RichardLess wrote: January 11th, 2022, 2:43 pm
gerard55 wrote: January 11th, 2022, 2:24 pm

Maybe muncher was at another part of the factory where he couldn't be heard? One thing the movie does show is muncher seems to randomly take a few bites and move on to some other piece of metal. So not hard to assume he was making his way through the factory randomly biting different pieces of metal.

And heres what i would consider the ultimate convenience, in the second movie they're about to be sentenced to jail and what happens? The slime sample "just happens" to conjur up 2 dead convicts that were executed and the same judge that sentenced them to death "just happens" to be the same judge presiding over the case. In all the tens of thousands of gallons of slime that sample "just happened" to contain the Scoleri brothers.

So, again, plenty of conveniences in the past movies that people seem to ignore as the rose tinted glasses are out for movies that were seen at a much younger age.
You are reading the 2nd film wrong. The slime didn’t contain the Scoleri Bros. It manifested them. So if that had been anywhere else with a different judge, it wouldn’t have been the Scoleri Bros. The Bros showed up because it was the judges anger that made the Slime pop.

There’s a word I tend to overuse on this site but it’s important. It’s verisimilitude. It’s essential to good storytelling where the fantastic happens. The problems Alpha, I and Sav mention aren’t nitpicks. Well maybe some are, but when taken together with all the other elements…the movies verisimilitude goes down the drain.
Manifested \ conjured up. It's still an incredibly convenient plot point and most people would have taken away that the slime sample actually contained those 2 ghosts as that's what the movie appears to show.
#4965144
gerard55 wrote: January 11th, 2022, 2:48 pm
RichardLess wrote: January 11th, 2022, 2:43 pm

You are reading the 2nd film wrong. The slime didn’t contain the Scoleri Bros. It manifested them. So if that had been anywhere else with a different judge, it wouldn’t have been the Scoleri Bros. The Bros showed up because it was the judges anger that made the Slime pop.

There’s a word I tend to overuse on this site but it’s important. It’s verisimilitude. It’s essential to good storytelling where the fantastic happens. The problems Alpha, I and Sav mention aren’t nitpicks. Well maybe some are, but when taken together with all the other elements…the movies verisimilitude goes down the drain.
Manifested \ conjured up. It's still an incredibly convenient plot point and most people would have taken away that the slime sample actually contained those 2 ghosts as that's what the movie appears to show.
How is it convenient tho? There’s a cause and effect to it all. The slime is evidence, the judge gets angry, the slime does what it’s suppose to do when someone gets angry, because the slime causes the ghosts of the scoleri bros to manifest. I’ve never heard anyone say they thought the slime contained the Scoleri Bros. This is the first.

If you want to use the 2nd film you can say “it’s convenient Dana just happens to roll over that slime in the opening scene and just happens to work in the art museum where the villain is”. Ok. Now that is something. Even tho it’s kind of explained in a deleted scene but it’s a legit example.

The Scoleri Bros appearing isn’t convenient at all. The Titanic was not trapped within the slime and then set out when everything started going crazy. It manifested because the slime created the proper conditions for PKE to bring about ghosts.

Same with the ghost train. So if the slime in that same Jar been in different court room with a different judge, the scoleri bros wouldn’t have been the ghosts. It would’ve been something related to that court and judge. So that means it’s not convenient or contrived. That’s why the Mayor mentions talking to Fiorello LaGuardia, a former mayor of New York. The mayor lives in Gracie Mansion which is where Fiorello LaGuardia lived when he was mayor.
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#4965146
I think (and, in a way, I hope) that Ghostbusters Afterlife was only our rabbit hole back into the world of Ghostbusters and the bulk of it we'll get to see in the next movie who, at this point, is bound to happen.

Yes, we wanted more Original Ghostbusters (dear Lord, yes). We wanted to know how's Louis. We wanted to know where is Oscar nowadays.

But think about it. Make this movie a 70 percent about the original guys and you alienate the younger audience. They go: "who are these geezers???"

The franchise needed something who enticed the new generations and who mostly appeased the Ghostheads and Afterlife does it.

Next time, fans old and new will have the same knowledge of the franchise: who are the original guys, who are the new characters, why in 1984 this ghostbusting activity started and how.

Now you're free to give Ray some more screen time without worrying about youngsters not getting it. You can show Winston in a New York alley showing the new team how to handle the tools and how to develop the talent. You can have Janine answering the phone while grumbling about Podcast jumpsuit being always the dirtier of the batch. You can have an Egon Spengler portrait hanged in the Firehouse hall and everybody will know who he was.

Oh, and believe me.... Give Bill the same relaxed working conditions, familiar set and enough money and he'll be Peter Venkman again.
Last edited by Davideverona on January 11th, 2022, 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#4965147
RichardLess wrote: January 11th, 2022, 4:00 pm
. I’ve never heard anyone say they thought the slime contained the Scoleri Bros. This is the first.

I very much doubt that, even the script just mentions the scoleri brothers "explode out of the specimen jar", no mention of manifest etc, they explode out of the jar as if they were contained in it.
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#4965149
gerard55 wrote: January 11th, 2022, 9:32 amStay Puft could be explained away as the remnants of a former manifestation of gozer. When Stay Puft exploded in the original movie bits and pieces went flying everywhere, there was a lot left on the roof of the building as well so who's to say some didn't get fired through the portal and they basically took on their own being, albeit on a much less powerful and much smaller scale linked to Gozer?
That still leaves the movie to explain how they got out of the portal and into that specific Walmart.
starang11 wrote: January 11th, 2022, 9:52 amI always thought it was lame that they just end up blasting a floating head (though I guess the positive slime did most of the heavy lifting)...
My problem with that part is that Vigo has no rules at all. More than anything, I think that really messes up the finish of that movie. If Vigo can exit the painting as himself, what does he need a human body for? What exactly is he capable of doing and not doing (beyond apparently paralyzing the guys)? Why do Peter and Egon blast the corners of the painting with the proton guns, and how do they know to do that? Why does that put Vigo back in the painting? The one part I guess I buy is that sliming him with the positively-charged slime hurts him, because he was drawing from the river of negatively-charged slime, but that part of the movie clearly didn't get the work it needed.
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#4965152
Sav C wrote: January 11th, 2022, 11:58 amI know I sound like a broken record, but I don't like that the plan to catch Gozer is largely the same throughout the movie. Egon catches a terror dog, and lures Gozer's energy into the field of traps. At least, that's what I think happens (if he was only being chased by the other terror dog, why couldn't he trap that terror dog as well? (if one trap wasn't enough to hold a terror dog, couldn't it be placed in a stronger containment unit at a later date?)). But his plan fails since there's not enough power.

Ok.

But then, in the ending, they lure Gozer down to the field of traps, and again it doesn't work because there's not enough power. But Trevor shoots a proton beam at the power conductors, and blam, Gozer's trapped. Unless I missed something, the main difference between the beginning and ending was that they had more power at the ending (and there wasn't any talk, prior to it happening, of how to get more power). I dunno, it doesn't seem very creative.
Here's how I'd adjust this: Gozer is chasing Egon back to the farmhouse. Egon has the traps set up to create this mega-trap in the dirt. Gozer approaches the farm and he tries the mega-trap, which doesn't work. (Honestly, to set up the ending here, he should use the proton beam to try and hold Gozer while this happens, which is largely ineffective, because he's alone -- in general, illustrate how hard it is for Egon to do everything by himself.)

When he can't trap Gozer, he blasts one of the Terror Dogs and traps it, temporarily banishing Gozer, and then hides that trap in the floorboards. While dissipating, Gozer summons the chair arms and Egon tases himself to avoid being possessed, a state in which he could re-open the trap.

Also, at the end, to emphasize how much more powerful Gozer is than a regular ghost and justify the trap field, Gozer's death should be getting pulled apart by the field of traps, with a little bit of ghostly energy going into each one of the separate traps.

The problem is that the movie wants to hide that it's about Gozer. You could probably try and obscure it but wordlessly explaining what is happening gets much harder.
gerard55 wrote: January 11th, 2022, 1:54 pmIf you're going to talk about conveniences then its probably better not to watch movies as theres always conveniences involved. For example, in the original movie the original 3 "just happen" to start a business mere weeks before a world ending threat arrive and they "just happen" to be equipped to deal with it. They "just happen" to have started their business at the perfect time to stop Gozer.
One of the things I appreciated about the 2016 movie is that they had an explanation for this. I would say I don't need it in the original movie, but I found the addition of a reason to be an inspired choice. Same with the developing tech -- another cool touch that I don't mind not seeing in the original but do appreciate being added to the new one.
Last edited by tylergfoster on January 12th, 2022, 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#4965153
RichardLess wrote: January 11th, 2022, 1:08 pmI think you and I are in the same boat when it comes to this movie. There’s a lot to like. The new characters? Awesome. Everything dealing with stuff from the previous films, outside of the surface details like equipment and cars, that’s where the problems start. The OGB’s, Gozer, Egon, Ivo Shandor…it’s a mess. And then you mix in the film not being a comedy? Like I said it just goes to show how hard apparently it is to make one of these movies and why I respect the original movies so much more.

And don’t get me wrong. I the first viewing, while not ideal circumstances, was still a trip. I enjoyed myself(could’ve been the drugs tho..) but whenever I started to think about it I just had all these problems. Then on a second viewing, I was much less enthusiastic.
I agree. I really enjoyed the new characters, the use of the score, and how the movie stayed true to a lot of the equipment. I was also pleased with the special effects and the cinematography (I miss the film look and color palette of the first two movies though). But the story wasn't developed enough, which is made especially unfortunate by the film being less comedic. A lot of comedies can get by without a great story, as long as they're still funny (I'd say Caddyshack is an example of this). I don't think Ghostbusters works without a fairly solid story, but by scaling back the comedy, Afterlife found itself without much to fall back on. I think a Ghostbusters movie needs a really good, comedic story, and a satisfying romantic subplot helps (Trevor and Lucky's subplot was a bit anticlimactic imo).

I enjoyed it on first viewing, but was a bit dismayed when I left the theater.
Last edited by Sav C on January 12th, 2022, 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#4965158
Sav C wrote: January 11th, 2022, 5:16 pm
RichardLess wrote: January 11th, 2022, 1:08 pmI think you and I are in the same boat when it comes to this movie. There’s a lot to like. The new characters? Awesome. Everything dealing with stuff from the previous films, outside of the surface details like equipment and cars, that’s where the problems start. The OGB’s, Gozer, Egon, Ivo Shandor…it’s a mess. And then you mix in the film not being a comedy? Like I said it just goes to show how hard apparently it is to make one of these movies and why I respect the original movies so much more.

And don’t get me wrong. I the first viewing, while not ideal circumstances, was still a trip. I enjoyed myself(could’ve been the drugs tho..) but whenever I started to think about it I just had all these problems. Then on a second viewing, I was much less enthusiastic.
I agree. I really enjoyed the new characters, the use of the score, and how the movie stayed true to a lot of the equipment. I was also pleased with the special effects and the cinematography (I miss the film look and color palette of the first two movies though). But the story wasn't developed enough, which is made especially unfortunate by the film being less comedic. A lot of comedies can get by without a great story, as long as they're still funny (I'd say Caddyshack is an example of this). I don't think Ghostbusters works without a fairly solid story, but by scaling back the comedy, Afterlife found itself without much to fall back on. I think a Ghostbusters movie needs a really good, comedic story, and a satisfying romantic subplot helps (Trevor and Lucky's subplot was a bit anticlimactic imo).]

I enjoyed it on first viewing, but was a bit dismayed when I left the theater.
I personally thought Afterlife had plenty of comedy. The same type of sarcastic, subtle comedy the first two movies had.
#4965160
Omg, let's not question if Gozer if a god or not. The rule is Gozer needs its 2 servants on the physical plane and to complete the ritual to serve as its anchor on the plane. Otherwise, the god can't maintain a corporeal form on the physical plane. And as Egon figured out, even gods can be trapped.

The 3 capacitors were plainly built to soup up the field of over a hundred regular traps so it could contain Gozer and the cloud. Egon needed quantity and needed more power to strip away Gozer's P.K.E. into each trap, then trap it ironically what was done to Tiamat in the IDW Comics a few years ago.
tylergfoster wrote: January 11th, 2022, 4:53 pm That still leaves the movie to explain how they got out of the portal and into that specific Walmart.
I thought their thing is they temporarily borrow the form of the statues built in their honor then they have x amount of time to take on a human host before they fail and have to wait for the next predicted year of Gozer's arrival.

It seemed to me the host is chosen based on the first person they see. Vinz saw Gary upon being released and thus he was chosen as host and was locked onto Gary via scent or what have you. Why Zuul picked Callie? Shrug. Though there is something that can't be a coincidence. Louis lusted after Dana a little, they both get possessed. Gary lusted after Callie a little, they both get possessed.
tylergfoster wrote: January 11th, 2022, 4:53 pmMy problem with that part is that Vigo has no rules at all. More than anything, I think that really messes up the finish of that movie. If Vigo can exit the painting as himself, what does he need a human body for? What exactly is he capable of doing and not doing (beyond apparently paralyzing the guys)? Why do Peter and Egon blast the corners of the painting with the proton guns, and how do they know to do that? Why does that put Vigo back in the painting? The one part I guess I buy is that sliming him with the positively-charged slime hurts him, because he was drawing from the river of negatively-charged slime, but that part of the movie clearly didn't get the work it needed.
Vigo could temporarily exit the painting at that point because of all the negative psychomagnotheric energy collected by the river so he was a pseudo Class 7. He felt it was zero hour and he had to get Oscar back and finish the transference before the New Year. He wouldn't be able to maintain form outside the painting indefinitely in his corporeal ghost form, he left the painting just to get Oscar. Being weakened after Ray got slimed then he himself getting slimed is probably what propelled him back to the painting. The painting was his safety net, like before his death he cast some black magic that anchored his spirit to the painting after his death. The positive charge on the proton streams and the slime vs. his weakened negative state because of the singing equals boom and his spirit was blasted into the next dimension.
#4965164
gerard55 wrote: January 11th, 2022, 4:05 pm
RichardLess wrote: January 11th, 2022, 4:00 pm
. I’ve never heard anyone say they thought the slime contained the Scoleri Bros. This is the first.

I very much doubt that, even the script just mentions the scoleri brothers "explode out of the specimen jar", no mention of manifest etc, they explode out of the jar as if they were contained in it.
You can doubt it all you want but I’m telling you this is the first time I’ve ever seen this come up. What you are reading in the script are screen directions. It’s describing the action of the moment and how it will appear, that’s all. Nothing in the script suggests the Bro’s were chillin in the slime just waiting to get free until the Judge went biblical on the GB’s. The movie is all about the environment and emotions. The emotion of the judge within that environment brought about the Scoleri Bros. The slime was the primer that helped them along. The judges negative emotions were the catalyst.

But seriously I’ve never read anyone suggest the slime holds actual ghosts.
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#4965166
If anything, the mood slime simply creates a temporary veil that allows ghosts to cross over. The explosion in the court room was meant to visualize that. The slime is just the medium. The slime is portal but it needs power for its batteries to open the portal for a few seconds, thus it takes power from human emotions. I think that's what they expanded on in TVG with the Black Slime being more 'purely negative' than the mood slime and could maintain a portal indefinitely until sealed by the slime blower.
#4965167
mrmichaelt wrote: January 11th, 2022, 6:47 pm Omg, let's not question if Gozer if a god or not. The rule is Gozer needs its 2 servants on the physical plane and to complete the ritual to serve as its anchor on the plane. Otherwise, the god can't maintain a corporeal form on the physical plane. And as Egon figured out, even gods can be trapped.

The 3 capacitors were plainly built to soup up the field of over a hundred regular traps so it could contain Gozer and the cloud. Egon needed quantity and needed more power to strip away Gozer's P.K.E. into each trap, then trap it ironically what was done to Tiamat in the IDW Comics a few years ago.
I don’t think the question is if Gozer is a god(or demigod) but rather a Ghost. Regardless, I just feel like trapping the big bad is kinda lame. It feels anti climactic to me.

Where are you getting they were “souped up”? From my understanding The capacitors just powered all of them on at once, hence the scene with Grooberson and his car. I don’t think it’s suggested this are some kind of “super mega trap”. Just that it’s a heck of a lot of traps and it takes a lot to power them on at the same time. But I could be wrong.


tylergfoster wrote: January 11th, 2022, 4:53 pm
gerard55 wrote: January 11th, 2022, 9:32 amStay Puft could be explained away as the remnants of a former manifestation of gozer. When Stay Puft exploded in the original movie bits and pieces went flying everywhere, there was a lot left on the roof of the building as well so who's to say some didn't get fired through the portal and they basically took on their own being, albeit on a much less powerful and much smaller scale linked to Gozer?
That still leaves the movie to explain how they got out of the portal and into that specific Walmart.
starang11 wrote: January 11th, 2022, 9:52 amI always thought it was lame that they just end up blasting a floating head (though I guess the positive slime did most of the heavy lifting)...
My problem with that part is that Vigo has no rules at all. More than anything, I think that really messes up the finish of that movie. If Vigo can exit the painting as himself, what does he need a human body for? What exactly is he capable of doing and not doing (beyond apparently paralyzing the guys)? Why do Peter and Egon blast the corners of the painting with the proton guns, and how do they know to do that? Why does that put Vigo back in the painting? The one part I guess I buy is that sliming him with the positively-charged slime hurts him, because he was drawing from the river of negatively-charged slime, but that part of the movie clearly didn't get the work it needed.
My understanding of Vigo exiting the painting was that he was transferring his “soul” into Oscar and then Dana interrupted. We see that he is no longer in the painting when she does that. That leaves Vigo’s soul or essence between the painting and our world. He is able to give himself form to fight the GB’s and is sucked back into the painting when the positive vibes of the singing crowd outside reduce the power of slime(we actually see the colour drain from the slime for a moment). So Vigo vulnerable outside the painting.

As for the Gb’s shooting the corners of the painting…I think that was just a VFX thing. The GB’s point their wands at a certain point and having the beams hit his head would’ve required the beams to do like a 90 degree turn. It was awkward staging(a problem with the entire finale if you ask me. Part of the reshoots).
robbritton liked this
#4965206
RichardLess wrote: January 11th, 2022, 7:10 pm

You can doubt it all you want but I’m telling you this is the first time I’ve ever seen this come up. What you are reading in the script are screen directions. It’s describing the action of the moment and how it will appear, that’s all. Nothing in the script suggests the Bro’s were chillin in the slime just waiting to get free until the Judge went biblical on the GB’s. The movie is all about the environment and emotions. The emotion of the judge within that environment brought about the Scoleri Bros. The slime was the primer that helped them along. The judges negative emotions were the catalyst.

But seriously I’ve never read anyone suggest the slime holds actual ghosts.

I believe you, thousands wouldn't. :wink:
#4965208
I'd fix the opening by showing Egon finishing up his array inside of the mine. His presence awakens the terror dogs. As he is walking back to his truck (which doesn't need to be a Shandor Mining Co. truck btw) the terror dogs appear. He doesn't have a proton pack, but he does have a trap. He has to wait until the exact right time and position for the trap to work. As one terror dog jumps at him, he opens up the trap and sucks it into the trap. The other terror dog growls in anger. Egon jumps into the truck and speeds off. The terror dog gives chase. He gets back to the farm and hides the trap inside of his lab (a floor board puzzle? Talk about too convenient). He then puts on his proton pack. The terror dog comes into the lab, Egon goes to fire and ... nothing (because two CRT emitters are blown). The terror dog jumps at him. In a last ditch effort, Egon uses the PKE taser. It works. Egon then slowly walks back up to his house and sits in a chair. He dials a number on a landline phone, but while the phone is ringing, he slumps over - his heart giving out from the terrifying encounter. The PKE meter hits the ground. There's a beat and then the PKE meter lights up, detecting Egon's spirit.

By doing this, we set up Phoebe needing to fix the proton pack. We put the ghost trap in a place we'd expect to find it, instead of underneath a floor board puzzle in a space conveniently big enough for a ghost trap.

. . .

As for Vigo and the painting, I always understood it as Vigo wanted to literally live again, but having his soul inhabit a human body. The GBs interrupted this process, so he exited the painting to battle the GBs and try and complete the process. My understanding of why Vigo didn't do this the second Oscar was brought to the museum is because there's something about the midnight hour that allowed for this process to take place. Anyway - the singing neutralizes Vigo's power a bit, putting him back in the painting. In a last ditch effort, he possesses Ray. The GBs use the positive slime to neutralize Vigo's power further, which forces Vigo to release Ray. Peter and Egon shoot the painting for a similar reason why reason they shoot Gozer's temple - to close the portal.
#4965216
JonXCTrack wrote: January 12th, 2022, 9:05 amHe then puts on his proton pack. The terror dog comes into the lab, Egon goes to fire and ... nothing (because two CRT emitters are blown).

By doing this, we set up Phoebe needing to fix the proton pack. We put the ghost trap in a place we'd expect to find it, instead of underneath a floor board puzzle in a space conveniently big enough for a ghost trap.
While I am (unsurprisingly) partial to my own rewrite, this is a good addition. I would amend mine by saying that (and I admit that I am not as deeply familiar with how the proton pack technology is supposed to function as some of the other fans) maybe he tries increasing the power on the proton pack to compensate for the fact that he's alone when he's wrangling Gozer, and while he manages to trap the one Terror Dog, those CMT emitters blow out from the exertion. Although, then I guess you have to explain how the pack gets into the laboratory.
#4965217
mrmichaelt wrote: January 11th, 2022, 6:47 pmVigo could temporarily exit the painting at that point because of all the negative psychomagnotheric energy collected by the river so he was a pseudo Class 7. He felt it was zero hour and he had to get Oscar back and finish the transference before the New Year. He wouldn't be able to maintain form outside the painting indefinitely in his corporeal ghost form, he left the painting just to get Oscar. Being weakened after Ray got slimed then he himself getting slimed is probably what propelled him back to the painting. The painting was his safety net, like before his death he cast some black magic that anchored his spirit to the painting after his death. The positive charge on the proton streams and the slime vs. his weakened negative state because of the singing equals boom and his spirit was blasted into the next dimension.
RichardLess wrote: January 11th, 2022, 7:37 pmMy understanding of Vigo exiting the painting was that he was transferring his “soul” into Oscar and then Dana interrupted. We see that he is no longer in the painting when she does that. That leaves Vigo’s soul or essence between the painting and our world. He is able to give himself form to fight the GB’s and is sucked back into the painting when the positive vibes of the singing crowd outside reduce the power of slime(we actually see the colour drain from the slime for a moment). So Vigo vulnerable outside the painting.

As for the Gb’s shooting the corners of the painting…I think that was just a VFX thing. The GB’s point their wands at a certain point and having the beams hit his head would’ve required the beams to do like a 90 degree turn. It was awkward staging(a problem with the entire finale if you ask me. Part of the reshoots).
Even if either of these interpretations are correct, the underlying problem remains, which is that the movie doesn't actually explain any of this. If Vigo exits the painting in the middle of the ritual, then that could be portrayed visually with the visage of Vigo in the painting getting fainter as the face appears over Oscar, and then a wider shot of Vigo stumbling out of the painting as the ritual is interrupted. If the slime gives him the power, then have ghostly pink energy come down from the ceiling where there's still some of the shell around the window to form him. Things like that.

The part of these two explanations that fits best for me is the proton beam thing basically being a gaffe. It would make so much more sense if Peter and Egon used the proton beams to hold Vigo in place while Ray and Winston blast him with the mood slime.
RichardLess wrote: January 11th, 2022, 7:10 pmYou can doubt it all you want but I’m telling you this is the first time I’ve ever seen this come up. The movie is all about the environment and emotions. The emotion of the judge within that environment brought about the Scoleri Bros. The slime was the primer that helped them along. The judges negative emotions were the catalyst.
Everyone, write this down: RichardLess and I agree on something again. This has always been my interpretation, that the judge's villainous energy causes the slime to react, and because it was that judge, the Scoleri brothers pop out.
robbritton liked this
#4965230
Corey91 wrote: January 12th, 2022, 9:35 am BTS of Bob Gunton in prosthetics and makeup as Egon. (First pic is concept art obv)

Source: https://www.stanwinstonschool.com/blog/ ... -interview
Hey all, we had a request from the higher ups to remove this image. Please refrain from posting it. It's also been removed from the original article.
deadderek liked this
#4965233
AJ Quick wrote: January 12th, 2022, 1:26 pm
Corey91 wrote: January 12th, 2022, 9:35 am BTS of Bob Gunton in prosthetics and makeup as Egon. (First pic is concept art obv)

Source: https://www.stanwinstonschool.com/blog/ ... -interview
Hey all, we had a request from the higher ups to remove this image. Please refrain from posting it. It's also been removed from the original article.
That explains why I didn't see it in the article.
Also in that spirit, AJ, in the uniform forum I have started one called Dirt Farmer Egon. The image can also be found there and will need to be removed too.
#4965238
Hairy Biker wrote: January 12th, 2022, 1:52 pm
AJ Quick wrote: January 12th, 2022, 1:26 pm

Hey all, we had a request from the higher ups to remove this image. Please refrain from posting it. It's also been removed from the original article.
That explains why I didn't see it in the article.
Also in that spirit, AJ, in the uniform forum I have started one called Dirt Farmer Egon. The image can also be found there and will need to be removed too.
Done.
Hairy Biker liked this
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